My debate with the leader of The Salvation Army’s leader in New Zealand

by Vaughan Rivett on June 19, 2010

I have edited some names out of this email as it is not relevant for this post.
Commissioner,
Thanks for getting back to me.   I know that you are a very busy person so I do appreciate your time and I know full well that you don’t have time for a lot of detailed debate on this topic.
The comparison to the Mormons has come from friends who my wife and I have been praying for over the past few months who were in attendance at the Sunday morning meeting.   There was so much talk about William Booth and so little about Christ that I can see exactly how our friends came to the assumptions that they had made.   Our friends are highly intelligent and therefore any common style of dress would not have been what they were getting at.
You are correct when it comes to Jesus telling parables based on everyday stories.   However, there was always a spiritual message to what he had to say.   Everything that Jesus did and said was to point to the Father.   Jesus always had a spiritual lesson which could be talked by a practical life example, however what was preached on Sunday was a practical life  ”ideal”, with one or two scripture verses used to enforce idealistic points, rather than a focus on a Spiritual point.
Call me traditional, but, I have always thought it appropriate for Scripture to be a pivotal part of any Salvation Army message.   When I preach I use all sorts of stories, most of them are very humorous and sometimes very personal.   However, these stories are used to bring attention to scripture and spiritual principles (using the same model that Jesus used).   Constantly, I get people to refer back what the bible has to say.   In-fact I would be happy to be accused of over doing it.
To be focused on  ’doing ‘ good works as The Salvation Army, rather than relationship with Christ, is not a bible based message.   I actually consider that to be  ’religion ‘ rather than relationship.   At the end of the day if someone has their relationship with Christ in growth mode, doing good for others will not be a religious duty but an expression of an inward experience.   If I am unable to count the words   ‘Jesus ‘ or   ‘God ‘ more than a couple of times in a message, then I don’t think that we can call it a message from God.
The other observation that I have made is in regard to the response of the people.   On Sunday in both messages which were preached by the DC there was no visible public response.   Yes, at East City in the morning a number of people stood when asked if they were committed to serving Christ.   However, when people were invited to come forward, nobody did.   Again, there was an invitation in the evening, however, nobody made a public commitment.   Yes, I know that a public commitment is not the only measurement of commitment, but it is a reasonable expectation that people will respond in such a way if they are moved by the Holy Spirit.
My observation with not only the preaching style of others, but also my own, is that a sermon which is founded on the bible, rather than on a topic, will have more effect.   People are challenged and their lives are changed as a result.
I am not surprised by your comment about other people who were present having another view.   The personnel secretary was present at both meetings along with his wife.   He himself was more excited by the Army than any mention of the Gospel.   I feel that particularly Sunday evening was full of Salvation Army   ‘hype ‘ which people typically get emotionally tied up in, and therefore don’t seem to be aware of anything else which may be lacking.
I am not surprised by your comments as it would seem that the leadership of the Army would consider that there is no justification in the concerns of people like myself.   The first reaction always seems to be to stand loyal to a fellow officer or group of officers.   In fact, it hardly seems to be worth raising concerns in the first place.
However, I would rather think that it would be better for someone to be disturbed by such concerns, especially enough to find out if the person making them has any credibility.
So that you understand a little about me, I am the son of a pioneering Salvation Army family who have demonstrated the love of Christ both within Salvation Army programs and also on a personal level.   I have been through The Salvation Army sections, worked as a missionary based in Zimbabwe, travelled the world working for The Salvation Army. I have a good understanding of the Army world.
That covers the Army stuff, but, I am also a fully committed follow of Christ Jesus.   I gave my life to him at the age of 7 years and have experienced the ups and downs of that relationship over the years.   Since the age of 16 years old I have been in full time ministry.   I don’t subscribe to the growth of The Salvation Army, but to that of the kingdom of God, two distinctly different focuses
Commissioner, what would it take to have an Army which talks more about Christ than itself?   What would it take for the public to understand that we are firstly a church, and then an organization which concerns itself with the social plight of humanity?   What would it mean to be known as the Commissioner who was able to address the spiritual focus of this territory?
My challenge is that this email be shared with a team of people who are open to praying about these concerns and asking God to show them if there is any truth in what I have said.   I urge you to have this committed the prayers of the faithful, not the judgement, but the prayers.   Surely, God will answer according to his will.   I would be interested in hearing what you believed to be the result of such prayer.   Are you up to the challenge, or is it a waste of time?
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